You can definitely still consider them as part of your decks total card advantage capacity and both are great cards
These cards also feature powerful, high-cost attacks that make them risky to play, but have a big payoff
Hermit Druid | Just like Oath of Druids, Hermit Druid is, or rather was, spectacular as putting your entire library into your graveyard
Using cards to exchange life totals like Axis of Mortality or Repay in Kind can instantly knock your opponents out of the game
Umbris, Fear Manifest is the standout example for a nightmare payoff, though you can work with a couple of others
Creatures with powerful ETB or attack triggers, like Loran of the Third Path or Gary Clone, are amazing with Delneys ability-doubling effect, and it can work as a fairly strong white commander